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Ariga Special Update
October 21 1997

Now at Ariga: The Gush Shalom List of Settlement Products
Gush Shalom, the veteran Israeli peace bloc, has published a list of products from the settlements in the occupied territories. The full list is now available in English at http://www.ariga.com/boycott-list.shtml"

Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997
From: Alan Ganapol aganapol@computer.net
I am sick that first such a move was taken by Gush Shalom... while I don't support their pov I am fully supportive of effective demonstrations of different viewpoints in a democracy. However, to use an economic playing card in this endeavor is hateful and highly destructive... cutting off one's nose is an image that comes quickly to my mind. You/they oppose the role being played by those living on the other side of the "green line"... then the democratic process needs to work... to use the arrogance and destructive force of economics to make a point is wrong. Get a no confidence vote in kinesset... move for new elections... allow the country to decide in an orderly fashion... vote Likud etc. out if that's where are are... Imagine taking bread out of the mouths of people who were authorized to move, build and establish businesses outside of the green line... to what end? Will this really bring about the peace all of Israel needs and wants? Democracy works... it takes time... that is the price we all pay for democracy... but it's better than the alternative. Be well... chag samayach!
Alan Ganapol

Robert Rosenberg wrote back:
Dear Alan -- Politics is about power and power is about economics and all methods short of calling for violent overthrow of the government or shooting prime ministers are legitimate in a democracy.

ALAN WROTE:
You are right about relationship between power and economics... yet... to use a tactic such as a boycott... will, IMVHO seriously backfire... that is, the Gush Shalom will be cast as being no better than those who perpetrated the Arab Boycott of Israel post '67... My own sentiments are not with Gush Shalom... however... it is a voice that needs to be heard and moving in what I feel is an abusive and self destructive manner can be of no value to the movement... play the issues on the stage of debate, work the kinesset let the process happen... It is interesting to me... during sukkot... when traditionally we grab hold of different Jews (lulav, etrog, hadas, arava) and hold them together and shake them together pointing in all directions of the compass and up and down... showing the unity of the Jewish people... Gush Shalom has chosen a tool that further aggrevates the divisions between us. Be well... chag samayach! Alan Ganapol

Robert Rosenberg wrote back:

To me it's interssting that our prime minister whispers into the ear of a 99-year-old kabbalist (who if he was in any way a true kabbalist would never meet with a politician), and says "those leftists, they don't know what it means to be Jews. They give up our security to the Arabs, the Arabs, have you ever heard such a thing?" while at the same time his defense minister, chief of staff, chief of intelligence and chief of counter-espionage are meeting with their counterparts in the Palestinian Authority, and then has the gall to speak of the need for national unity.

From Alan Ganapol:
Robert... Do you sleep? :-) Somehow I never expected such rapid responses... another :-) My critisms had to do with Gush Shalom's boycott of businesses beyond the "green line"... not re: the PM et al and their various inappropriate (maybe illegal?) actions/reactions etc. While I strongly disagree with your views, as I've mentioned, I never said that I at the same time strongly supported Bibi... there is much needed to be done to "clean up" Likud (to put it mildly!). I strongly believe that any movement within Israel that attempts to "crush" the opposition is doomed to failure... I believe that is what zapped Labor in the last election... language from the Labor heirarchy using just these words on US television was an example of this... Perhaps I am naive... but... unity can be achieved without the retoric of boycotts, crushing... oppositions will disagree (Thank God) but open debate and moving the people with these words is what will result in change. I read today that Avigdor Kahalani is asking for a national unity government... why not work toward conciliation... fractiousness will seriously hurt Gush Shalom in the short run and Israel in the long run. Robert... please get some rest! :-) Be well... chag samayach! Alan Ganapol

Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997
From: glevin@primenet.com (Levin)

Robert,
Thanks for the list. I will make sure to import many more products into the US. My family have been very active in the food business since my great-great uncle, a food chemist invented the recipe for Heinz catsup. I will do all that I can to import these products. As you can guess, I disagree with your opinions of peace or should I say appeasement. Could you make a list of products owned by left wing folks as yourself ? I would like to boycott them. Shalom,

At 10:10 AM 10/27/97 +0200, robert wrote back:

thank you for your letter to ariga concerning the boycott list. do what you want with it. buy their products, boycott their products, whatever. you have the luxury of living in america without a kid in the army who might have to die or kill in order to protect the lifestyles of the zealots and their patsies who moved out of the state of israel in order to live in the land of israel, as if the state of israel doesn't exist in the land of israel. by your way of thinking, while the arabs won't be satisfied until they have tel aviv, the jews won't be satisfied until they have all the land between the nile and the euphrates. but as i said, you have the luxury of your convictions without having to pay any of the costs, neither individually, nor as a citizen of a state in which you have a stake.

Robert,
Thank you for your letter. You shouldn't assume so much about strangers. I do have a stake in Israel. Actually, I have lived in Israel and I will return to live there again. My military career was almost nil. I have asthma, and how we say in the US, I was 4F. As for myself or children suffering or perhaps getting killed, g-d forbid, again don't assume that I don't have children in the army already. And certainly I have many cousins in Israel whose children serve in the army. So, I do have a stake and the luxury of America for me is temporary at best. Many of my friends and associates live half of the year in both countries. Moreover, all Jews who practice and identify with being Jewish feel very strong about Israel. It is not fair to attack american Jews. Peace Now solicits money and political support from American Jews. We are not cut off from Israeli politics, neither those of us from the right or left. I actually respect you for your convictions, but I don't agree with you. I suppose most Israelis are somewhat centrist and moderate. Even though I lean to the right, that doesn't make me a war mongering maniac. My experience is that extremists get caught up in a warped ideological conviction. They become rigid. Sometimes it is makes sense to lean to the left and other times to lean to the right. Ideologues can't seem to make that shift. As I get older, I become more pragmatic. So I wish you the best. Perhaps you'll someday mellow a bit. My wife who took a public debating course in college once told me that when an argument is weak, people tend to veer from debating facts and attack the individual, the opposing debater, not the argument. Anyway, Shalom again. Gary
PS
After I get back to Israel, perhaps we will meet across a debating table. But, still in the end, we really want the same thing. A safe home to live in.

Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 22:32:55 +0200
From: Marc Prowisor <mspro@netvision.net.il

With people like you, who needs enemies. If you only knew what real peace is about you would sing a different tune. All you know is hate, unfortunately you hate yourself most. Ask the arabs what they think of your hurting their own income. Try to get to know them better and you may come up with a new philosophy. Learn to see good and beauty in all things, not just your tidious little world.

Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:30:31 +0200
To: info@ariga.com

(Sent Anonymously) Thank you for the important public service you are doing in publicizing the names of the Israeli companies located throughout the Land of Israel who need our support now more than ever. I will certainly print the list and distribute it to my friends and relatives and also hang it on billboards wherever possible. Most importantly, I will browse the list when buying a product or looking for a service as I know full well that every additional penny to the settlements is a penny for a strong and viable Israel. As agricultural products (Vegetables, Fruit and Flowers), constitute a major part of settlement production and they are often mixed on the shelves with products from the Arab sector, I will make an especial effort to make sure I only buy "Settlement produce". We all want the Israeli authorities to make this distinction possible by stating clearly whether a certain product is "Settlement produce" or produce from the Arab sector. I will certainly do all I can to help the Settlement economy by writing to your local store's management, demanding this marking and by constantly asking the storekeeper for the exact origin of such products. I will certainly carry your list with me when I go shopping and will endeavor to <italic only</italic buy goods from companies on the list. I will likewise, as you ask, publicize the list as widely as possible and ask my friends to carry it with then when they go shopping. Please keep up your good work in enabling us to support some of our nations true patriots. I will visit your site often to update my shopping preference list. As a start I am sending your list to some 2000 email subscribers I know all of whom will without doubt now be able to shop more diligently looking out for products that emanate from YESHA and the Gaza Settlements. Sincerely A fighter for Israel

Someone named Alan Silver at colboaln@isracom.net.il wrote in caps:

... YOU WILL PROBABLY END UP IN THE SAME SECTION IN THE NEXT WORLD AS HITLER AND EICHMANN AND THE REST OF OTHER FAMOUS JEWISH HATERS ...

Tue Oct 28 08:55:43 1997
From: RG26@aol.com

Dear Robert, I was surprised to happen upon your boycott web site. There is one problem with boycotts, in addition, of course, to further exacerbating the terrible schism among the Jewish people, both in Israel and the galut, which we can no longer afford. [Do you even care about that?] The problem to which I allude is that there will inevitably be counter-boycotts by those who are repelled by Jews boycotting other Jews. In fact, I expect that your list will serve to stimulate purchasing of those whom you naively wish to boycott. So, once again, the law of unintended consequences will prevail. Those who work to further divide the perilously divided Jewish people, those who are so imbued with their own fatuous moral self-righteousness, will inherit the whirlwind. Sincerely, Roger Gerber

Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:27:05 -0500
From: Joseph Fried <jfried@pathcom.com

thanks for the list i will attempt to only buy these products and encourage all others to do likewise we will distribute the list in a circular to thousands of recepients who unlike you are under no illusions as to whther your friend arafat has the slightest desire to conclude a peace treaty that is worth the paper it is written on thanks again from a jew lover to an arab lover

Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:58:01 -0500
To: info@ariga.com
From: Jay Novetsky <jnovetsky@earthlink.net

Thank you for informing our friends of the products that we can purchase to help our fellow Jews in Eretz Yisrael. Not withstanding your right to dissent, shame on you for calling for a boycott against Jews. Yes, Jews who DO chose to live in a part of Eretz Yisrael that you may chose NOT to live in, which is certainly your choice.As an American Jew, I support the freedom of Jews to live in all parts of Eretz Yisrael. No doubt your safe haven was also once considered "occupied territory" inhabited by "settlers" not so long ago.Do you really still believe that our "cousins" feel any differently about your right to live in Gush Dan compared to those who live in Yehuda V'Shomron? Were we to abandon Yesha, Yerushalayim etc(as I presume you would suggest) would this be Dayenu for Arafat? For Yassin? I think their words, especially in the recent days reveal the truth. They want it all. They want Palestine to be Judenrein. Someone else in our recent past wanted a land Judenrein. They also started with a boycott.Please don't continue down this path.

From: sol b <srb@delphi.com Thank you for the list of manafacturers in the liberated area's. It will help me here in the United States locate manufacturers who can supply me with Made in Israel products.Your service is even better than the Ministry of Trade. Thanks again Shelomoh Halevy S"T

Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:20:51 -0800
From: chani <mylite@netvision.net.il
You should be ashamed of yourselves! This is the most antisemetic site I've yet to see. I feel very sorry for such self haters! The funny part is that you have included products from left wing kibbutzim such as Meva Hama in the Golan. What a sad joke!! Chani

Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:39:34 -0800
From: lois <lois@isracom.co.il
Aren't you ashamed? I urge all of us to support our fellow Jews, whether in Yesha or elsewhere in Israel. Let us recall that the State of Israel has suffered long and hard against external boycotts. We should unite, sustain and strengthen all the Jews throughout Eretz Israel. Thank you for providing the list - I will make special effort to BUY these products and will pass the lists on to my friends and neighbors. Peace will come when we are as one people - supporting each other.

Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 20:32:02 -0800 From: RAANAN LEVY <levy_loj@netvision.net.il Organization: Rejwan / Lion of Judah Tours Ltd

Dear Robert, I assume it is time for me to thank you for your website which offered the list of YESHA & GOLAN businesses to be boycotted. Few weeks ago when came across it, I admitt I was very upset. I could not understand how Jews can invest so much thinking time and efforts to battle the daily living of people who work their farms, or operate industrial machinery. I could not understand how you and your friends, can personally assault the pocket book of individuals who are citizens like yourself, even despite of political differences. Imagine your time would have been spent to talk about Rajoubs' actions ? Imagine you would think to demonstrate Hussein's hospitality to the Hammas ? Imagine you and your friends would do even some business to enlarge trade with Egypt ? Would that not be a good thing for peace ? Anyway, just for your information, by now, just in less than 2 weeks, we (me and friends,) have managed to spread your boycott list amongst over 400 people in Israel, and over a 1,000 in the USA, all business people who are into trade and commerce. They all are going to find ways to do prefered business with anyone who is on your list. Just in the two weeks, one Barkan industry, and one Golan Heights industry in the Golan have 'closed' a nice sale with 2 US companies, thanks to our work - yours and ours. We ask you to please update and enlarge your list, so more businesses can find their counterparts in those areas. Soon, we shall create a website, asking people to use your list which will be updated on a regular basis - I hope. How appropriate it is, 2 years after Rabins' murder, to see that his herritage of promoting internal hatred between various sects in Israel - still lives on. I will contact you soon again so you can visit our website once in operation. And one last word, just so you dont have the comfort of calling me a 'Radical rightwing', I am a memeber of the Third Way Party in Israel, a party that beleives the ideas promoted by your group ('Gush Shalom') are the main obstacle for peace Israel is faced with.

From: "Meir Raskas" <meir@flash.net Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997

How dare you cause financial hardship ON OTHER JEWS P.M. Netanyahu was 100 % correct when he said the left lost there Jewish character. JEWS DON'T TURN AGAINST OTHER JEWS . YOUR ORGANIZATION IS AN EMBARRASSMENT TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE.FOCUS YOUR TIME AND EFFORTS ON A POSITIVE IDEA!!!!! P.S. Even though I don't agree with your policies, I would never thing of boycotting your (my fellow brothers) products. Take care my dear brother !!!! May we all merit to see true peace in Israel. Meir Raskas

Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:22:37 +0200 (IST) From: Jerry Schachter <schachte@netmedia.net.il As an observant (and proudly traditional) Jew, I usually try to find scriptural precedent for current events and people. In your case it wasn't too difficult - the Books of Shemoth (Exodus) and Bamidbar (Numbers) are replete with instances of how Israel's Erev-Rav (riffraff) spared no effort to remove any shadow of proper Jewish identity and Divine Preference from our people. May the Almighty, in His infinite mercy for His chosen people, soon grant the likes of you and your ilk the same end as their other foes.

Dear Robert,

I really enjoy Ariga and want to thank you for your tireless work in the name of justice. It must be difficult to be faced with such venomous opponents. Your efforts would not inflame the opposition so if they were not effective. Thank G-d for people like you, who are willing to face persecution if necessary for our collective benefit. Many of us who are also committed to justice are truly grateful for your efforts. Thank you and best wished for your continued success (and endurance). Azera

October 28 1997
From: Bruce Hill
Subject: Ariga E-bombed
Dear Robert, I have suffered a similar experience, albeit not on the scale of yours. I am, or I should say WAS, a member of an e-mail list for Jews here in New Zealand. Nothing fancy, just a basic server, send an e-mail to the address and everyone on the list would get it. It was used to swap news, have an occasional discussion, and I used to post a few news items on matters of Jewish concern from the internet. Especially on the Orthodox/Progressive debate and the conversion issue. VERY hot-button stuff here on the outer fringes on the Jewish world, I can assure you. The list was started by Progressive Jews, but was open to all. There were a few Orthodox members, who were thoughtful, rational, and prepared to tolerate the existence of the rest of us in the meantime. Then suddenly about three weeks ago everything changed, virtually overnight. A bunch of....steady now, mustn't get carried away....Orthodox extremists began what I can only describe as an organised hate campaign against me. Essentially their argument (and I'm toning it down, I'm sure you can add in the extra vitriol and nastiness) was that by re-posting news from the Israeli media about the conversion issue, I was spreading hatred, denigrating Orthodoxy, and engaging in a personal vendetta to destroy the Jewish people. Apparently my argument that I was simply posting news items from established newspapers worked against me, as we all know about those leftist secular self-hating blah blah blah I'm sure you can fill in the blanks. I was even accused of slandering the Orthodox Rabbi here in Wellington by re-posting his comments about Reform Judaism in his synagogue newsletter. I didn't even add any commentary (didn't need to of course). Eventually the campaign to get rid of me became so intense that I had to unsubscribe from a list which I was a founding member of. The final straw came when I was described as a Jew-baiter. I'm a convert, so that one really got where I live. It appears to me that if this is happening to me here in New Zealand, and you're getting E-bombed in Israel, there may be some sort of causal link. Nothing so convoluted as a direct conspiracy of course, but a mindset, an attitude, a new way of going about things. When someone has run out of arguments, the tend to lash out with their fists. Perhaps this is the electronic version of that. I have not given up - I am reorganising, and will shortly launch my own e-mail news service for New Zealand Jews. I already have permission from Ha'aretz to post three of their news items a day, as long as it's just for Kiwi Jews, and no more than 50 people, and no money is involved, and I include a hyperlink to their website. Sounds fair to me - and this way I can filter out any provocateurs who try to disrupt proceedings. Please let me know if there are other news sources who might be amenable to allowing me to use their stuff - I'm a HUGE fan of what you're doing with Ariga. I put a Palestinian student chum of mine onto it a few months ago, and he couldn't believe that such a site could exist in Israel. He's a bit extreme, but I'm working on him. Who knows, I may be able to prevent him from turning into a crazd HAMASnik. Much better to keep him a crazed Fatahnik, right? Frankly, I'm starting to have a lot of difficulty telling OUR crazeoids from THEIRS. They might almost be the same people. Come to think about it - Levinger and Yassin, have you ever seen them photographed together? Think about it.... Bruce Hill Wellington New Zealand

From: Elisa

I do have an idea about the kind of mail you are getting...now after the murder of PM Rabin, z"l, it must be worse, but when I accompanied the PM to Washington in September, 1993, I got some pretty sick and vicious telephone messages. At the time, I shared them with a Greek-African friend of mine...she shared a Madagascar adage with me..."A tall tree is hated by the wind. For it is old and has enough wisdom to know to sway in the wind, this keeps it from dying. So, don't worry, ignore your enemies; eventually like the wind they get tired and leave you alone, and you can carry on as before." Let the e-mail get caught in an eternal loop, as long as you do not get caught in the eternal loop of hatred eventually the wind will blow and peace will come. I am an eternal optimist... But being that I am a sensible woman...perhaps you might consider taking some sort of legal action. Shabbat Shalom Elisa Ben-Rafael

From: Mark Lautman
Robert -- I am one of your biggest supporters, in thought if not in deeds. Your ariga updates are always welcome. However, the boycott call is improper. It only furthers division within the nation, and may actually harm the financial position of employees within these factories, Jews & Arabs alike. Your previous suggestion, to put up signs and complaints when writing to tax and political authorities, is much more to the point. aleh v'hatzlech

Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997
From: The Rainbow Maker
Robert: Sorry to hear about the e-bombing of your efforts... I gave up an open list because of misuse.. The good news of course is your work is validated.... If you are in a battle for change and you do not shake foundations... You are going in the wrong direction.. Your page and your mailings are a gift to the future of peace in the middle east. The world and our children will be indebted to you. May you always walk in peace and friendship Fred Stern http://www.zianet.com/rainbow

Dear Robert,
How appropriate it is, 2 years after Rabins' murder, to see that his herritage of promoting internal hatred between various sects in Israel - still lives on. And that the jewish terror from "various sects" contionues ... And one last word, just so you dont have the comfort of calling me a 'Radical rightwing', I am a memeber of the Third Way Party in Israel, a party that beleives the ideas promoted by your group ('Gush Shalom') are the main obstacle for peace Israel is faced with.

And robert wrote back:

And I regard the settlement movement's drain on the State of Israel's financial, military, and most importantly, moral resources, have been the most anti-Zionist movement to arise in the 20th century.

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